How do "hold time" and "fade time" correlate to BPM drive mode?

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Jamo
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:11 am
Operating System: Windows

How do "hold time" and "fade time" correlate to BPM drive mode?

Post by Jamo »

Hey folks :)

Quick question.
When I create an effect using Step FX I can define how long every step "stays" and if it fades based on the values in "hold time" and "fade time".

Image

But how do these values work or what effect to they have when I choose "BPM" as the driving mode?

Does 1 second equal X amount of beats?
Is it "hold step until X seconds or next beat"?
Is it "hold step at least X seconds and wait for next beat"?

Thanks everyone! :)
Jamo
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2024 12:11 am
Operating System: Windows

Re: How do "hold time" and "fade time" correlate to BPM drive mode?

Post by Jamo »

Nobody got an idea? :(
willm
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:19 pm

Re: How do "hold time" and "fade time" correlate to BPM drive mode?

Post by willm »

Hello!

When you activate BPM driving mode, you will see that there is a possibility to set the number of Beat Divisions. This will essentially divide the total length of the scene, by the number of Beat Divisions. In the example you attached, the scene length would be 16 seconds long. If you have the Beat Divisions set to 4, the whole 16 second scene will be stretched to play start to finish in 4 beats (which is likely quite fast, depending on the tempo). If you set the Beat Divisions to 32, the whole 16 second scene will be stretched to play start to finish in 32 beats (which is likely quire slow, depending on the tempo).

So:
- Individual steps settings are not relevant, only the total duration of the scene.
- The duration of the scene is divided by the Beat Divisions.
- The exact time measurement of each 'beat' is dependant on the tempo.

Hope this helps!

Kind regards,
Will
86bibo
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:22 pm
Operating System: Windows

Re: How do "hold time" and "fade time" correlate to BPM drive mode?

Post by 86bibo »

This totaly screws up my idea of BPM controlled scenes. That is has to be something like this for fluent/dynamic scenes sounds reasonable, but from my understanding, step realy is itended to react with the next step each. That's really a pitty and so I have to ensure in the future, that I always have a multiple of 4 steps in each szene to have it syncronized with the beats. Maybe the programmers should rething this approach. So it does not make much sense from my perspective.
willm
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:19 pm

Re: How do "hold time" and "fade time" correlate to BPM drive mode?

Post by willm »

Hmm, I'm not sure I see what you are referring to here... You wouldn't necessarily need to have a Steps scene always in multiples of 4, as you can set the Beat Divisions to any value also. Lets say for example you have a scene with 7 steps (each step changes your lights to a new colour) and each step is 1 second long. All you would need to do to set this scene to follow the tempo is set the beat divisions to 7. It is also not as simple as just setting the number of beat divisions to the exact same number of steps either, since sometimes your steps will have different lengths.

Steps are a little tricky to properly synchronise, because it is a purely time based effect and is fully customisable. I have attached an image below to help visualise how the BPM synchronisation works with Steps scenes.
Screenshot 2024-07-11 at 15.51.08.jpg
Screenshot 2024-07-11 at 15.51.08.jpg (249.07 KiB) Viewed 32 times
Hopefully this helps, if you are still having some issues and want to send over an example of a scene that you are struggling to synchronise please do let us know!

Kind regards,
Will
86bibo
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:22 pm
Operating System: Windows

Re: How do "hold time" and "fade time" correlate to BPM drive mode?

Post by 86bibo »

Hello Will,
thanks for your reply. To make it a little bit more clear, the easiest way to explain what I mean is with a dimmer or color step. Asume I have a 4 PAR Bar and want to change color or dim the PAR light on/off with every beat (or a multiple of it), then my approach is (and I thought this worked at least in Daslight 3) to create a step scene with color changing/ diming of all 4 PAR lights. When I now set the driving mode to BPM, then I want to have to react the PAR lights to each BPM. So e.g. color change with each beat. As I understand you correctly, what step scene is doing, it looks for the duration of the whole scene which might lasts 13 seconds with 7 steps. So if I have a BPM of 120 and the set the beat division to 16, than this 16 beats take 8 seconds and Daslight speed up the scene, that it completly fits into this 8 seconds, right? So the 16 beat from the tracks have no conection to the steps of the scene, which are 7 during that timing and don't have to be equal in their duration (depending on the hold and fade times of the steps).

I understand the approach of the program, which makes definitely sense for e.g. movements of Moving heads or Matrix Effects, but it makes it quite difficult to have realy beat triggered scenes.
For me, the only solution to do that is to create scenes with 4, 8, 16 or 32 steps, where all of them have the same time settings and then set the beat division to the number of steps in the scene. Is this correct or do I miss something?
willm
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:19 pm

Re: How do "hold time" and "fade time" correlate to BPM drive mode?

Post by willm »

Hello, yes the scene would be stretched to 8 seconds long, which is equivalent to 16 beats in your set tempo. So there is some amount of synchronisation because you have the scene loop exactly once every 16 beats. Within this loop however, there will be very little synchronisation, unless you are in an odd time signature such as 7/16. In this case however, I would suggest that setting 16 Beat Divisions is not the best decision.

There are a couple of different ways that you can better sync your scenes by either adjusting the number of Beat Divisions, or the duration of each step.

1) If each step in your scene has an equal total duration (Hold + Fade time), then you can simply just set the Beat Divisions to 7, 14, 21, etc. Since the total duration is divided by the number of Beat Divisions, you will have a new step on each beat, or every other beat, every 3rd beat...

2) If each step in your scene has a different total duration (Hold + Fade time), then you may want to adjust these settings to fit the scene better into a 4/4 time signature. There are many things you could do for this, for example:
----- If you wanted to have the first 4 steps play on each beat, then the remaining 3 steps form a triplet- you could set the first 4 steps to 3sec, the last 3 steps to 4sec, then a beat division of 8.
----- If you wanted to have the steps run quickly til the 3rd beat, then have it pause, then run quickly again- you could set Steps 1-4 to 1sec, then have step 5 be 2x longer at 2sec, then Steps 6-7 set at 1sec, then a beat division of 4.

Both options here would create a good synchronisation with a standard 4/4 rhythm. Another way of thinking about this is that each step is essentially a musical note, or a percussive hit, and the Beat Divisions is the overall length of your scenes loop- so you need to think mathematically in order to fit irregular numbers into a rigid 4/4 time signature. If each of your steps overall duration are set up in such a way that they are mathematically relevant to one another, you will be able to sync the scene with ease.

I have attached an video below showing some of what I have described for your reference.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y6c3Y_ ... sp=sharing

[Scene 1 = synchronised because it changes every beat. Total cycle is 7 beats long, so every 28 beats / 6 bars, the scene will loop at the same point as the tempo scene.]
[Scene 2 = synchronised because it completes one loop every 16 beats / every 4 bars. Each step is not synchronised within the cycle however because they are random durations.]
[Scene 3 = synchronised because it changes every beat for the first 4 beats, then the last 3 steps are played in a triplet. Total cycle is 8 beats / 2 bars.]
[Scene 4 = synchronised because it changes twice every beat for the first 2 beats, then holds on the 3rd beat, then changes twice again on the 4th beat. Total cycle is 4 beats / 1 bar.]

Hope this all makes sense and is helpful!

Kind regards,
Will
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